Curse

High Voltage Killer · Apr 16, 2009, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Hey all, I just have a few questions, they are as follows:
1. Which Monk hero has the best Prot AI, Heal AI, and Smite AI? Some friends and I have been having an arguement over they are the same or different in the first place, and I'd like it answered.
2. Are there any good Life Sheath builds for a hero to run? Or Peace and Harmony builds?

Thanks for the help all!
~ ll Holy Slayer ll

Lord Of Blame · Apr 16, 2009, 02:44 AM // 02:44

1. They are all the same. There is no difference in the AI.

2. Check PVX for premade builds. Thats where these came from.

[build=OwYS8YIPjx76KxeIQga2EkB]

[build=OwYT0wHDVShQLSg4BMMaiAZIgA]

High Voltage Killer · Apr 16, 2009, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Thank Lord of Blame, are those builds good for heros to run in PvE? I looked but didnt see them posted anywhere, unless I totally blanked out.

MercenaryKnight · Apr 16, 2009, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Those two elites aren't really that good. They have their uses but heroes would waste peace n harmony on single hex/ condition most likely. Generally heroes do fine with WoH as a power heal and then you could add utility for hexes/ conditions or whatever. Builds above are kinda bad for general hero use.

Try these

[build=OwAT04XCzRjsR203t7a9Y6LTA]
[build=OwUUMy28YYOFkNtAZmoFzALf0I]

Though I will say if you have the capability and just want to own general pve with access to gw:en you can look into discordway.

http://pvx.wikia.com/wiki/Build:Team...Man_Discordway

Link for two man but you can cut around it and figure out a 1 man variant if you don't have a friend to play it.

FoxBat · Apr 16, 2009, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Blame's bars are OK for humans but absolutely terrible for heroes. They won't cast 5e spells while glyph is up, they won't spam enough while divine spirit is up, they use LS as a prot not condition removal, they will run themselves dry fast spamming spirit bond to less effect than prot spirit.

If you're going to run a monk hero you practically need inspiration spec for skills like [Power Drain][Waste not Want Not][Ether Signet][Leech Signet]. Anyway there's a totally seperate hero builds wiki section, because you really don't want to give most player builds to them. Although even alot of those builds are pretty weak in terms of energy management, which is why I usually run necros or eles for healers.

Super Igor · Apr 17, 2009, 07:33 PM // 19:33

basically, heroes are amazing at healing and are bad with majority of monk prots.

BigDave · Apr 17, 2009, 11:04 PM // 23:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

basically, heroes are amazing at healing and are bad with majority of monk prots.

That's exactly my experience. Heroes are great at reacting to things but useless at anticipating. Skills like [power drain] and [leech signet] are great on hero monks because it allows them to pump out other spells more often and they act as a kind of protection, using the AI reaction time to stop some spells from being cast.

As for which monk hero is the best at certain roles. They're all the same. It's the build/equipment you give them that makes them good or bad.

Paul Dawg · Apr 18, 2009, 06:04 PM // 18:04

There are two reasons why I've abandoned that approach:

1. Those skills tend to have awfully long recharge times, so you end up having to load a lot of inspiration skills onto your bar, and you can't forget that your healer's main purpose is to heal, not leech energy or interrupt foes.

2. Those skills target foes and therefore force you to put your hero on "guard" rather than "avoid combat."

Honestly, I find that a simple [channeling] works well enough in most PvE conditions, even in HM. Yes, it has its drawbacks too, but it does let your healer hero focus on HEALING.

Also, as utility inspiration-magic skills go, I like [drain enchantment] for heroes (not so much for humans); one of those puppies should give your hero a nice little boost, substantially more than [leech signet] (because of the recharge time). Heals your guy, too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

If you're going to run a monk hero you practically need inspiration spec for skills like [Power Drain][Waste not Want Not][Ether Signet][Leech Signet].

FoxBat · Apr 18, 2009, 06:37 PM // 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Dawg

1. Those skills tend to have awfully long recharge times, so you end up having to load a lot of inspiration skills onto your bar, and you can't forget that your healer's main purpose is to heal, not leech energy or interrupt foes.

I'd pick just two of those skills or at most 3, not all 4.

Besides there aren't too many skills you actually want to use on a hero monk heal bar- basically [Word of healing][Signet of Rejuvenation][Dwayna's Kiss], and you can toss on your choice of [divine healing][heaven's delight][cure hex] if you like. Human monks are loaded because they have situational awareness and use the best skill for the situation- they know not to spam [Protective Spirit] on every single target. Heroes tend to use all the skills on recharge and run their energy to nothing. (Unless you're pro and micro prot spirit...)

Quote:

2. Those skills target foes and therefore force you to put your hero on "guard" rather than "avoid combat."

This can be a real downside... hence why I don't like monks.

[Channeling] can be good but it seems situational, haven't played with it alot. The irony is to abuse channeling, you *want* to be in a "bad" position (channel tanking)... and the supposed advantage of sticking on defensive is to stay out of bad positions... so these seem at crossed purposes. Of course you could probably throw it on with an interrupt/waste not for good effect.

I don't mind [Drain Enchantment] on smite/support bars, but on an actual healer a 2s skill + aftercast is asking for death.

Super Igor · Apr 18, 2009, 07:20 PM // 19:20

To be honest I dont know what I like the most, my hero monks kiting away from HM mobs or standing there bit longer till I get rid of the threat.
Heroes are great kiters but they arent going to avoid much hits when a mob going after them moves several % faster than them so my monks just find themselves hit by some very nasty crits since they face the mob with their backs.

MagmaRed · Apr 18, 2009, 09:20 PM // 21:20

I personally love the new version of [unyielding aura] on a Monk hero. They use it extremely well and the instant rez is very nice, especially since the rez is full health AND energy. And since it works well with both heal and prot builds, it won't matter much which you take. Unless you need a specific elite for something else (condition/hex removal, etc.) then it is an outstanding elite for heroes to run. When I am using hero+hench, I normally bring a heal hero with Unyielding and a Prot hench (Lina, Kihm, etc.) and they do quite well.

Super Igor · Apr 18, 2009, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by High Voltage Killer

Thank Lord of Blame, are those builds good for heros to run in PvE? I looked but didnt see them posted anywhere, unless I totally blanked out.

no, those builds arent made for pve, first one is the meta monk build for HB, it is fairly decent against pressure and sin or war spikes but sucks at redbarring and it wont work for pve.
The other build is meant to be played by human players in gvg...no it wont work well on heroes and is pretty meh for pve too. :3

Paul Dawg · Apr 19, 2009, 12:30 AM // 00:30

Couldn't agree more. I think N/Rt's are better healers overall, and if I have only one slot for a healer hero, that's what I take. But it can be nice to have [dwayna's sorrow] on a monk healer if you're going to be amassing minion armies. That and [word of healing] will do the bulk of your guy's healing with just two cheap skills. And by all means try experimenting with [channeling] a little more. I've used it everywhere in HM, and it doesn't make guys kill themselves.

Oh, and yes, I don't put [drain enchantment] on a healer either because, in addition to the two-second casting time, it forces you to put your hero on "guard" again. Just saying that it's a good utility inspiration-magic skill that people tend to overlook.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

This can be a real downside... hence why I don't like monks.

knobby · Apr 19, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Does anyone have a good hero smite build? Preferably with ROJ, Ive looked around a bit and havent come accross any, even on that wiki page I couldnt find one

MagmaRed · Apr 19, 2009, 05:56 AM // 05:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by knobby

Does anyone have a good hero smite build? Preferably with ROJ, Ive looked around a bit and havent come accross any, even on that wiki page I couldnt find one

I've used this one on my Ogden and been pleased with it.

[ray of judgment][reversal of damage][smite condition][smite hex][smiter's boon][divine healing][zealot's fire][castigation signet]

zwei2stein · Apr 19, 2009, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigDave

That's exactly my experience. Heroes are great at reacting to things but useless at anticipating.

That, however does not mean that you should not use prots, because when you are taking damage, you will usually take more in future as PvE enemies do not excell in target switching.

While [Protective Spirit] will probably not catch inital spike (unless casted manually), it will still mitigate tons of damage. [Shield of Absorbtion] will still get ridiculous results while not preproting.

Not to mention manual prot casting - about the only reaon to ever bother with hero monk instead of hench.

Super Igor · Apr 19, 2009, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

That, however does not mean that you should not use prots, because when you are taking damage, you will usually take more in future as PvE enemies do not excell in target switching.

While [Protective Spirit] will probably not catch inital spike (unless casted manually), it will still mitigate tons of damage. [Shield of Absorbtion] will still get ridiculous results while not preproting.

Not to mention manual prot casting - about the only reaon to ever bother with hero monk instead of hench.

Not really, heroes arent good with prots such as [protective spirit] for example but are amazing with prots such as [aegis] [guardian] [shield of absorption], as soon as melee gets close to your party the have [aegis] up, otherwise they dont use it, as soon as you are about to be hit by melee they cast [guardian] and the are amazing at finding some being pressured the most to cast [shield of absorption].
So no, not all monk prots are bad on heroes.

Also, lol @ spike in pve. In HB guardian > all, prot spirit is a waste, in ha take an n/rt hero with life transfer and it will ctach you more spikes than an everege player. :P

zwei2stein · Apr 19, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

Not really, heroes arent good with prots such as [protective spirit] for example but are amazing with prots such as [aegis] [guardian] [shield of absorption], as soon as melee gets close to your party the have [aegis] up, otherwise they dont use it, as soon as you are about to be hit by melee they cast [guardian] and the are amazing at finding some being pressured the most to cast [shield of absorption].
So no, not all monk prots are bad on heroes.

Also, lol @ spike in pve. In HB guardian > all, prot spirit is a waste, in ha take an n/rt hero with life transfer and it will ctach you more spikes than an everege player. :P

What else would you call typical on-agrro-greeting where mobs attempt to fire all their skills than spike?

Not saying they are awesome with big prots, but slotting one is not waste either. You don't have to be good with it to get great returns that are infinitelly better than another straight heal.

Super Igor · Apr 19, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

What else would you call typical on-agrro-greeting where mobs attempt to fire all their skills than spike?

Not saying they are awesome with big prots, but slotting one is not waste either. You don't have to be good with it to get great returns that are infinitelly better than another straight heal.

mobs mindlessly fireing all skill at you, thats how I will call it.

shhh, redbarring wins pve only prot you really need is prot spirit for pulls, really. None the less heroes are amazing with the skills I mentioned previously.